Mixed Martial Artists and Ultimate Fighting Championship

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Mixed Martial Artists and Ultimate Fighting Championship

Postby jhoney1977 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:27 pm

Hopefully I've got your attention with that title. I'm just posting because I notice there have been a lot of recent questions in the Sport rounds of GPs where you have to identify a Mixed Martial Arts and/or Ultimate Fighting Championship fighter.

Is it just me, or is it absolutely impossible to find information about these people in standard sports reports- where should I be looking? When was the last time any of these people featured in a BBC sport report, for example, or in a newspaper sports section or even a terrestrial TV channel?

Are they perhaps a *little* too obscure to feature so regularly in the Sport genre (and not even in tiebreak questions- an entire point is lost by not knowing their names)? For example, I don't think I remember many recent questions where you have to identify boxers, or even tae kwon do or judo competitors....

If anyone who was able to correctly identify Eric Esch as 'Butterbean', Gilles St Pierre and Rey Mysterio could shed some light on where to find out about these people without spending hours watching wrestling, I'd be much obliged....

Jesse.

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Re: Mixed Martial Artists and Ultimate Fighting Championship

Postby Chris » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:37 pm

Hi Jesse,

Yes, I'm one of those people who is a (minor) fan of boxing but not execrable WWE style wrestling or 'mixed martial arts' (aka "choking your opponent while you're both lying on the floor" as I tend to think of it). I can only imagine that the principal sources of information on these 'sports' is either satellite TV broadcasts or dedicated websites.

Call me an old fuddy duddy but these new fangled TV-based entertainments (they appear to have caught the imagination of the 20 and 30-somethings) lack the depth of history etc. to warrant equal coverage as, say, boxing or 'traditional' martial arts, like fencing and tug of war :P
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Re: Mixed Martial Artists and Ultimate Fighting Championship

Postby grecian » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:40 pm

I too had noticed this trend, Jesse. I think four questions on these kinds of "sports" in two months is grossly excessive - to my mind they might merit, say, one question every three or four events - but not very much more than that.

As you say they are not considered mainstream sports, and in some quarters are viewed as being more akin to entertainment. Whilst they might have armies of dedicated fans, I still think they're at the periphery of sport and ought to be treated as such for setting purposes.

This is another instance of my point that sports genres have a tendency to focus too heavily on minority sports and not enough on the big six or seven sports which comprise 90% of UK sports coverage/sports reference (although Nic's pretty good sports round was not an instance of this - I think he got the balance right, Rey Mysterio aside).

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Re: Mixed Martial Artists and Ultimate Fighting Championship

Postby jhoney1977 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:22 pm

Thanks Chris and David,

I completely agree that Nic's Sports paper was excellent in the round- and even the Mysterio question was fine in isolation- I should point out my gripe's not with any individual setter of UFC/MMA questions, rather the cumulative effect of many over a short space of time, coupled with the difficulty of trying to improve on this relatively obscure subject. Chris- I was hoping there might be some source other than specialist UFC websites and cable channels, but you're right, I think that's all there is!

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Re: Mixed Martial Artists and Ultimate Fighting Championship

Postby SaintListy » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:24 am

Jesse, David

DISAGREE DISAGREE DISAGREE

And it's belittling of two of my favourite pastimes.

I expect you two would have liked a question on Buzkashi instead as it's easy to revise and be superficial on. I think it's good to reward people who have depth on a subject. I won't apologise for my sport rounds which generally sports fans like and sports revisers hate. If want to score well in sport, like David Lea for example, you need to be interested in it and watch a lot. Either try following it, come to mine for a weekend or just accept you won't get the mark. I got a couple of rugby questions wrong so know that to improve, I have to follow it more.

First, the Rey Mysterio question. It's international. The number of people in the world who would recognise Rey Mysterio is well into the millions. He has a third of a million followers on Twitter alone. He is far, far, FAR better known than many of the comparitively obscure people that the two of will celebrate knowing an answer to. Wrestlemania is watched by millions with Mysterio always being one of the biggest names as it draws in the Latin American fans. Wrestlemania is frequently on Sky Sports. The argument for me is whether it should go into sport or entertainment not whether it should be asked.

Andre the Giant was in a few films, most notably, The Princess Bride. This is entry level WWE knowledge.

Butterbean wasn't my question as as someone who follows boxing and MMA, I thought it was brutal. No doubt, someone will correct me on this.

Georges St Pierre is a MMA legend. This sport is huge and it's global. The UFC being the most followed. Countries massively into this include USA, Brazil and Japan - three countries with huge populations. MMA is put down too frequently by people who know nothing at all about it and as you can tell, this annoys me immensely.

The George Clooney - Stacey Keibler question was surely a lifestyle one. Perfectly valid due to Clooney's status. I'd have know this fact whether I was into WWE or not because I follow 'trash' quite well.

Either MMA or WWE should appear in every GP if base it on how many people follow it. Makes a nice change from croquet terms.

Perhaps the two of you should set an individual, you play in them enough. Very easy to criticise but at least do your research. For every person knows Frederic Bazille in the UK, I'd guess 100 know Rey Mysterio. At my school it would be 1 (me) / 100.

I'm fed up with basketball questions on Le Bron, Bryant and O'Neill. Suspct someone will be really orginal soon and set one on Jeremy Lin. I like depth of knowledge to be exposed even though that makes me fall flat on my face at times. The Belgians are so good because they have so much more depth but not enough breadth.

The two of you are nice, clever and very talented guys but as you can see I disagree. Feel to to phone me up and we can discuss further. Jane has my details.

Peter

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Re: Mixed Martial Artists and Ultimate Fighting Championship

Postby BillyQuiz » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:40 am

I've not been on the GP scene for a while but I'm a sports lover and hope to be able to add a little to the debate.

Correct me if I'm wrong but viewing figures for UFC championship PPV events in the States now exceed those for boxing world title fights. This alone makes it a legitimate subject to include. For me, it would have the same level of merit as NHL hockey, judo or sumo. Even though they may have a huge following either within a certain territory or internationally, they are not mainstream in the UK and IMHO more suited to international quizzes. There are probably 20 sports I would put in this category and would suggest that about 5 questions from 30 would be a nice balance for each GP. As I have not played any of the recent GP sets I'm not in a position to comment but 4 MMA questions in the last 4 months would seem to me to be a little over represented. As an aside, Georges St Pierre is most definitely a legitimate subject for a question.

As for WWE, I would place it fairly and squarely into entertainment! It's as close to a legitimate competitive sport as my lunchtime game of cribbage.

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Re: Mixed Martial Artists and Ultimate Fighting Championship

Postby Sabrestar » Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:53 am

I think the first thing to remember in this debate is that Pro Wrestling/WWE and UFC/MMA are two completely different things. So for example at the last Grand Prix where the Rey Mysterio question appeared there were no MMA questions.

Also the two sports are massively popular around the country with the UFC and the WWE selling out major arenas like the O2, NIA and MEN Arena every time they come to these shores. I'm also sure I read somewhere that after football, the WWE was the most watched set of programming on Sky Sports. Therefore I think it's more than valid that both appear regularly at Grand Prix.

If you contrast that with Rugby League. Every Grand Prix features at least one question on the sport and possibly more. And whilst the sport may be very popular in some parts of the country in large areas of the country it has virtually no fan base at all. But I wouldn't argue for Rugby League to feature less often as like MMA and WWE it certainly has a place on quizzes.

Whilst there have been a few WWE and MMA questions of late, overall in Grand Prix there have been very few, plus I've got to agree that the ones which have been set has been very entry level. To find out who Georges St Pierre is you'd barely have to scratch the surface when it comes to UFC research. The equivalent question to somebody who had no knowledge of football would be showing them a picture of David Beckham and saying this man is nicknamed Goldenballs can you identify him. Also Rey Mysterio and Andre the Giant would come up very quickly if you researched WWE.

Again bringing up rugby league, generally the questions on the subject would probably be tricky even to people who are rugby league fans and are quite inaccessible to those who don't follow it. But these MMA and WWE questions are easily re-searchable. Personally I would like trickier questions on these subjects so I can test my knowledge on these areas but I'm happy with the current level providing they do keep cropping up as regularly as they have been doing recently.

Whilst I'm here more questions on Worlds Strongest Man would be nice as well.

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Re: Mixed Martial Artists and Ultimate Fighting Championship

Postby grecian » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:51 am

Heh, this has obviously put the cat among the pigeons. I should say I don't think Jesse was criticising these kinds of question per se, whereas I was, so I'll respond.

I completely accept that thinks like MMA and WWE have "armies of dedicated fans", and I know Peter is one of them, which no doubt accounts for the 3/30 questions in this broad subject area at Wakefield. That said, we will have to agree to differ as I still think this is too many. On the basis of Peter's arguments I am prepared to accept that an MMA/WWE question every other event (sometimes as a tie-break) might be just about acceptable, but having one question an event let alone four in two months is too much. I agree that all the individual questions that got asked (even Butterbean) were fair questions to ask, but in conjunction they were too much.

Rightly or not, nearly all MMA/WWE questions would be a tough question for 90% of GP attendees. And given that tough questions should probably not comprise more than one third of a GP, that again indicates they should be used sparingly.

I don't see the MMA/WWE debate as being related to the way in which I or anyone else approaches sport as a genre. I will freely accept that sport is not my strongest genre but I reject Peter's suggestion that my learning in the area is wholly list- or revision-based and that is why I do badly (and criticise anything which goes beyond list-learning). I may not play any sports myself, and with a longish-hours job, a long commute, and a sport-loathing wife, I simply don't have the time to watch a lot of sport on TV even though I might want to. Therefore, 90% of my sports learning is done by reading a (UK) newspaper sport section every day, and 10% is through reading sports books - I tend to favour books which have a narrative element to them rather than list of champions etc. That does differ markedly from other genres, where a much higher percentage would be book-based, but that's the nature of sports. I would class myself as a "proper fan" of football, and a "follower" of a number of other sports. I'm not a sport obsessive, but then GK quizzing is not about being on obsessive follower of things, like it or not.

I suspect the reasons I do poorly at the genre are probably (a) the sport category goes wider than the focus of a UK newspaper's sports pages, and (b) I am not able to properly contextualise all that I do get from the newspaper through a lack of watching sport as it happens and/or reading more widely around the subject. Reason (b) is squarely my fault alone and follows naturally from the way I have to approach the subject. Reason (a) I have no complaints about, but I maintain my view (with which others are free to differ) that I'd like to see more of the sports round focused on the big sports which garner most UK press coverage and indeed airtime. I would have thought I'm not alone on that.

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Re: Mixed Martial Artists and Ultimate Fighting Championship

Postby sinhaha » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:20 pm

Although I see WWE as borderline porn rather than sport , and although I don't follow MMA , I don't have any real problem with their inclusion. The reason for that is a broader non-specific point - I think it is a positive thing if individual setters' quirks are indulged. If you look at any Grand Prix you could argue that certain things are over represented and certain things under represented. Certainly my knowledge of the history of UK comedy came in very handy last weekend , and my lack of knowledge on hard rugby union/league questions did not.

Peter knows that I disagree with him when it comes to certain aspects of sports setting. I prefer questions which can be answered by non sports fans if they had done the requisite research. In the same way that I maintain a decent level on art/culture despite not being well read or cultured , I think it should be possible for people to improve their sports scores by making an effort to keep up. And I think that Andre the Giant , Gilles St Pierre and Rey Mysterio are all more than famous enough to feature , despite me not having a clue on any of them. There have certainly been far harder 1 pointers both in sport and in other genres.

To Jesse's original point , I have never tried to revise WWE , but I was reading this page on the morning of the February Grand Prix , only to learn the Heavyweight Champion and nobody else. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cu ... _champions

But my main point is that long may each individual setter prove to have their own idiosyncrasies.

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Re: Mixed Martial Artists and Ultimate Fighting Championship

Postby Chris » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:24 pm

I am enjoying this discussion immensely (thanks to all of you who are participating) and when I have something useful to say, I may return. In the meantime I will just comment that we have very similar (and sometimes heated) discussions on this this genre when it comes to selecting questions for the WQC. Boy do we ever....
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